Interview, October 27th 2019 | Saw[2] H--- (Male, 31), G--- village, M’Noh Ro area, Ta Naw Th’Ree Township, Mergui-Tavoy District                                         

Religion: Buddhist
Ethnicity: Karen
Family Status: Married
Occupation: Village head

[…]

Do you have any problems in your village?
There was a killing case in the village.                                      

Could you explain it more for me please?
The incident happened with a woman who stays at her brother’s house, close to my house. One day before the incident, she helped clean the plates for one meeting reception and her husband was waiting for her to go back with him to D--- village. He got angry with his wife and then, when his wife came back, he attempted to kill her by throwing a knife at her. Fortunately, there was an uncle [elder villager] in the house during the incident and he tried to talk to the husband so the wife could escape to another villager’s house. After that she did not feel secure to stay with her husband anymore, so she stayed with her brother. However, nobody reported this incident to me until another incident happened in July 2019.

This time, he [the husband] went to the house of his wife’s brother and stabbed his wife twice with a knife. Fortunately, she was able to escape from him and to run to my house. I heard strange noises, came out of my house and saw her holding her chest, so I asked her daughter: “What happened?” She replied that her step-father had stabbed her mother with a knife. Then I offered her to stay in my house and told them that I would call the [Myanmar government] village tract administrator for them.

That man [the husband] returned to his daughter’s house and I thought he would not try to hurt [his wife] anymore. However, when I was trying to get my phone from my house, I saw that man outside my house holding a machete. Therefore, I told his wife and her daughter to hide somewhere in the house, and that I would call the police for them. After I went out [to get phone service] and phoned the Dae Neh village tract administrator, I did not feel safe walking past that man, so I returned another way.

When I was almost at my house, I saw the woman’s son coming back from the petrol shop. He saw [that his step-father] was looking for his wife to kill her, so the son blocked him from reaching his mother and sister. He told that man [the step-father]: “Uncle, don’t come.” But the man did not stop and stepped forward to cut him with the machete, so he [the son] took a wooden plank from beside my house. At that time, I was worried that the young man would be killed, and then the step-father would also kill his sister and mother. However, the young man hit his step-father with the plank before his step-father reached him.

What was that Dtee’s[3] name?
His name was Dtee Saw Lah Hay.

What is his wife’s name?
Her name in Karen is Muga Y---. In Burmese, it is Daw[4] Z---. 

What is her son’s name?
His name in Karen is Saw A---. In Burmese, it is B---.

Can you continue the explanation about the incident?
When he [Saw Lah Hay] fell down after getting hit by his son-in-law, I worried that he would hit his step-father again so I shouted at him: “Don’t hit him again!!” Then, he threw the plank away and went to his mother and sister to make sure they were safe, without looking at his step-father. After he fell down, I hurried to get the machete away from him and called another villager to help me deal with the situation. We were all afraid of him and a girl said he had a knife in his bag. I worried that he would get up and throw the knife at us. Therefore, I told villagers: “Go and check his bag whether he has a knife or not. I dare not go there anymore.” They also had to be careful. We learned that he did not have a knife with him so I asked villagers to keep their eyes on him and make sure he would not cause problems to others anymore. However, we did not know whether he was dead or alive.

I tried to phone the [Myanmar government] village tract administrator for help [to take the injured women to the hospital], but they did not come so I asked a villager who has a car to take her to the hospital. Her son wanted to go with her, but I told him: “You cannot go with her, you should stay here because the incident happened here.” I asked a villager who knew how to test whether he [the husband] was still alive or not and then he said he was dead. Shortly afterwards, the village tract administrator arrived and told me: “You sent me a message about a minor case, but now it is a killing case.” I told him: “When I sent you the message, this man was not dead yet.” He [village tract administrator] also had contacted the police before he came.

When did the incident happen?
It was on July 7th 2019, at around 6 o’clock in the evening.

What do you think about this incident? Whose fault do you think it was?
I think that it was the man’s fault because he attempted to kill his wife by throwing a knife at her, and he also stabbed her chest with a knife. Moreover, he returned to his house [when his wife escaped after being stabbed] and we thought that he would not come to her anymore. However, he got the machete from his house and came to the village head’s [my] house where his wife was hiding. Actually, he should not have come anymore. He was supposed to care about [respect] the village head, who is a responsible leader in the village. [Maybe he] thought that nobody would dare to attack him back.

Did the couple have an argument before [this incident]?
According to what I asked her after the incident, she told me that her husband had subjected her to domestic violence [before] and had attempted to kill her by cutting her with a machete many times. But she did not let anyone know, not even her children. It usually happened when the man was drunk. She just reported it after this latest incident. Therefore, I told her that […] I would have to handle the case according to the [judicial] process.

He stabbed his wife because she refused to come back to him [after he attacked her]. He asked her to come back but she could not suffer his abuses against her anymore. He got angry and said: “If you don’t reunite with me, I will beat you to death.” In the past, he purposefully used to throw a knife at her and he threatened to kill her many times. Some of their relatives had heard about it, but they thought he would not dare to kill her if there were a lot of people around them.  However, he finally did it when there was no one around his wife. Her son returned after [she was stabbed].

How old is her son?
He is the same age as me [31].

He is the one who had to go to the [Myanmar government] court, right?
Yes.

How did the court handle the case?
We do not know or understand how they handle the case or their justice process.

Did they [the Myanmar Police Force] investigate the case by asking witnesses to report evidence to them?
Yes, they did. They called me, his mother, his sister and other close neighbours to provide evidence. Some villagers did not see the incident, so they answered that they had not seen the incident.

What did you have to do when you were in the court?
They just questioned us about the incident, just like you are interviewing me now, and then they took notes of our answers. However, we do not know yet how they […] will solve this case.

Where is he [the son]?
He is now in the Kaw Thaw prison. [He was arrested by the Myanmar Police Force on July 7th 2019. As of February 6th 2020, he was still in pre-trial detention awaiting a final decision from the court]                                                                                                                     

Do you want to add more information?
I would like to report that this man [the son] is innocent because someone [his step-father] was going to kill his mother and then, even though he tried orally to stop him from doing it, he was going to do it [kill her] anyway. Therefore, if he had not done it [hit his step-father], then his mother, younger sister and even his whole family [his wife and children] might have been killed. I think it is not fair for him to go to prison for protecting [other people’s lives and accidently killing his step-father].

My suggestion [for the Myanmar government judges] would be to consider the root cause of this incident, who was right and who was wrong. If he had purposefully killed his step-father without any reason, […] it would have been acceptable to take action against him by law. But this situation is different because he could not escape without standing up to his step-father to protect his mother. From my perspective, I would like [the judges] to release him, and if I were a judge, I would release him. […] We [villagers] are not judges, so we cannot do anything about this incident because it is in the judges’ hands. Since we are in the same village, we were eyewitnesses and we know how that man behaved.

Did you contact the village tract administrator?
Yes, I contacted the Myanmar government village tract administrator only.

How about the Karen National Union[5] village tract administrator?
No, I did not contact him/her. When I asked the [Myanmar government] village tract administrator, he said he had contacted the [KNU] village tract leader P’Doh Htoe Ree Wah. But it was too late and the case had been [already] taken over by the Myanmar government.

Do you have anything else to add?
Only what I mentioned above, as we [villagers] are eyewitnesses. […]

Can we [KHRG] use your information for publication?
Yes, you can.