Actually, on June 7th 2019, they [BGF] told us that we had to move to another place within three days. As a result, [Meh Kyee] villagers dispersed to their relatives' villages such as Wah T'Moe, Tee Kyah Ra, K'Ma Moe and Meh Kyee Hta villages. They informed us [to move] in order to start the fighting, so we had to move.

Who told you to move?
It was Bo[5] Maung Chit and Senior Monk Poe Loo (Wisaderiya)[6] who lives in Hpapun monastery.

What did they tell you?
The issue was that they [BGF] would clear the DKBA Splinter Group based there [on the Meh Kyee Loo hill] from the Meh Kyee area. Therefore, they asked us to move in order to avoid [the fighting]. After that [on June 7th], we moved to other places and temporarily stayed there for around 10 days. Since we learned that the situation was stable without any changes, and that teachers from Hpa-an Township [Thaton District] welcomed the [displaced] students back to school, we decided to return home. We also discussed this situation with the Battalion Commander [Bo Maung Chit]. After we retuned, they [BGF soldiers] approached [the Meh Kyee area] so we had to run again, and then the fighting broke out yesterday on June 21st.

Between which armed groups did the fighting happen?
It was the national [Myanmar] government [Tatmadaw] and the BGF who attacked the DKBA [Splinter Group].

Who are the leaders of the BGF?
They are Bo Maung Chit and Bo Tin Win, who are based in this community.

Did you receive any information regarding [any people] who were injured during the fighting?
We only got information that there were some [soldiers] who got injured, but not about dead people. I was not an eye witness to the incidents and I do not know the number of injured people.

Did the villagers run after or before the fighting broke out?
It was after we left the village because they [BGF and Tatmadaw] approached our village at around 8 o'clock in the morning. Teachers and villagers saw a lot of soldiers approaching the village so we decided to move to other places and schools had to close immediately.

When did you flee?
The first time, we fled but the fighting did not happen. The second time, we fled before the fighting because the fighting happened yesterday, which was the 21st. Today is the 22nd.

So you fled on the 20th [June 2019], correct?
Yes, it is [correct].

[…]

How many households are there [in Z--- village]?
There are around 103 households.

How many villagers fled?
All of us fled to our relatives’ villages and farms. Mostly, villagers fled to Y---, W--- and X--- villages.

What problems do you face when you are displaced?
During the displacement, we faced food and shelter problems, of course.

What do you [Internally displaced persons - IDPs] do to get food? Could you bring food when you were fleeing?
No, we could not bring food with us so we have to get food from our relatives. Villagers who ran to Y--- village temporarily stay in the monastery so they can have food there with the help of other villagers and the monk.

Have any humanitarian aid organisations helped you?
No, they have not. We received help from other villagers and the monastery. When we stay in the monastery, monks serve us food. Villagers who stay in other villagers’ houses, the host families serve them food. It is like that. 

How do you think the host families feel?
They also have to sleep in the bush where mosquitos can bite them [because their houses are full of IDPs]. 

How is the situation now?
All of them [DKBA Splinter Group and BGF] came back from the mountain [Meh Kyee Loo hill]. We saw they were back with a lot of trucks.

Have all of the BGF returned to their Battalion camp yet?
Whether they returned or not, their battalion commander phoned [censored for security reasons] and told [censored for security reasons] to gather all the IDPs so that they can drive the IDPs back to Z--- village. He was informed by villager that villagers fled to Y--- and W--- villages.

Do you mean Battalion #1014 Commander Bo Maung Chit?
Yes.

When will he [BGF] take you back to the village?
He said [BGF will drive us back to the village] this evening. When we were standing beside the road, the Myanmar government military also told us: “You can return back to your village”.

Has the fighting completely stopped?
They told us that we can go home so we think the fighting is over. […]

Interview Date:  June 22nd 2019
Interview Place:  W--- village, Lay Hpoe Hta village tract, Dwe Lo Township, Hpapun district
Name: U [Saw] U---
Gender: Male
Age: 50
Village: Z--- village, Weh Pwa village tract, Hpa-an Township, Thaton District
Religion: Buddhist
Ethnicity: Karen
Family Status: Married
Occupation:  Farmer

[…]

Where did you previously go?
I was just travelling around here. As Saw X--- previously mentioned, we fled the first time on June 7th [2019] and then we returned home. Our children went to school for several days and then we had to flee again on 20 June 2019. Now, my wife has to access healthcare services in the hospital, some of my children are in W--- village, another child is in Y--- village [with me] and I keep my five buffaloes with my older sibling in T--- village. This is how we are separated into different places, so I have to move from place to place to make sure my children and my animals are safe. I also have to go to the hospital for my wife, [and to T--- village] to look after my buffaloes. I also come here [W--- village] to access information on whether it is safe for us to return yet.

Have you returned to your village to check whether the situation has improved yet?
No, I have not returned to the village yet. Yesterday, we were not allowed to return [by local authorities], but if they allow us to return today, I will return [to the village] this afternoon. After that, I will be able to bring my animals home. However, my wife is still in the hospital so I will still have to go between the hospital and the village.

In which hospital is she accessing healthcare services?
The hospital is in K’Ma Moh [town] […].                        

Could you bring food when you were fleeing?
No, we could not bring food with us. We have our relatives in other villages so we just get food from them. However, when we get food from our relatives for a long period, we feel uncomfortable with the situation. I have more than one child [many family members] so it could disturb them as well.

Why did your family members have to flee to places separately?
Because of the dangerous incident [fighting], we were afraid, and they [BGF] told us to move so we had to flee.

Who started the dangerous incident [fighting]?
They are the same [armed] groups that Saw X--- previously mentioned [see above]; the DKBA [Splinter Group] based on the hill and the BGF based in the plain. I do not know what issues caused the conflict between these two groups and we live in the middle, so we had to escape to other places.

How did the fighting impact you [and your family’s livelihood]?
It impacts my family’s livelihood. It is not only me, but also my friends’ [the other villagers’] livelihoods as well; it is the period to plant our paddy, but we could not work on our farm so we are in a difficult situation. It also impacts our children’s wellbeing since we had to flee. We could not bring our pestle basket [kitchen materials and food] with us so we faced food and clothing problems. We could not bring a mosquito net with us and we had to sleep in the farm huts without a mosquito net; for example, my nephew who looks after buffaloes for me has to sleep in a farm hut without a mosquito net now. When we fled here [to the village] some of us could have a mosquito net from our relatives who received mosquito nets from [health worker teams]. Therefore, we have experienced difficulties during displacement.                       

Regarding your displacement, have the area [community] authorities arranged [provided] anything for you?
Currently, we have not received any services like rice for us yet.

Since villagers have to depend on their relatives, can you return home yet?
They [BGF] said they would take us home today; we are more than happy if we can go home because our children can go to school since they had to stop going to school for a long time already.

Who will take you home?
We were informed that BGF Battalion #1014 commander Bo Maung Chit would take us home.

When will they take you home?
They said this afternoon.

Do you think the fighting is permanently over?
As I am a civilian, we cannot know everything. However, we are very happy that they told us they would take us home. 

So you will go home after this interview, correct?
Yes, it is [correct].

Do you want to add any more information?
As I mentioned about my experiences with livelihood difficulties, we cannot sleep peacefully in our home and have to struggle with taking care of my family and my animals [so they can] be safe in this difficult situation. I would like to call for this kind of incidents to not happen […] again in the future. Having no more incidents like this in the future is our main desire.

Do you have anything else to say?
We desire to live peacefully in our home with our family and [we want] our children to go to school. Then, we will be happy.

[…]

Interview Date:  August 10th 2019
Interview Place: S--- village, Thay Baw Boe village tract, Kaw T’Ree Township, Dooplaya District
Name: Naw O---
Gender: Female
Age: 40
Village: Z--- village, Weh Pwa village tract, Hpa-an Township, Thaton District
Religion: Buddhist
Ethnicity: Karen
Family Status: Married
Occupation:  Farmer

[…]

Which armed groups operate in [Z--- village]?
The DKBA [Splinter Group], the BGF [Border Guard Force] and the Myanmar government military [Tatmadaw].

Are they still based in that area?
After they [DKBA Splinter Group] were attacked [by the BGF and the Tatmadaw], they could not stay [on the Meh Kyee Loo hill] anymore; they have only around 40 soldiers and a lot of [BGF and Tatmadaw] soldiers attacked them so they had to hand their army camp over to them. They [DKBA Splinter Group] could not be based there [Meh Kyee Loo hill army camp] anymore and they [BGF] burnt down all of our [DKBA Splinter Group families’] houses.

How long has the DKBA [Splinter Group] been based there [Meh Kyee Loo hill]?
They have been based there for around 6 years, since the BGF was established [August 2010].

As the community you are from was controlled by the DKBA [Splinter Group], have you experienced any problems […]?
We can live in peace, but they patrolled in a small area so they had to be afraid of the BGF [attacks] and planted landmines [to protect themselves]. Consequently, villagers were injured after stepping on the landmines; they were informed [by the DKBA Splinter Group] not to go to those places, but some villagers did not obey so they stepped on landmines. Also cows [livestock]… they [DKBA Splinter Group] told them not to let their animals go around but some cows stepped on landmines too. Therefore, they [villagers] blamed the DKBA [Splinter Group] for the incidents even though the DKBA [Splinter Group] had informed them about the areas where they planted landmines.

[…]

When you were there [Z--- village], did you know how the incident [fighting] happened?
When I was there, we were frightened because they [BGF] threatened to attack the DKBA [Splinter Group], but they did not attack. However, when they really attacked the DKBA [Splinter Group], we were not informed and they immediately approached with many trucks and guns with them. They attacked the DKBA [Splinter Group] on that day. Therefore, us women [villagers] could not bring our belongings with us. During the fighting, some DKBA [Splinter Group] soldiers got injured, but they did not have health workers and could not access healthcare services anywhere so they decided to [surrender to] the BGF. Nevertheless, they [DKBA Splinter Group and their families] have to stay within a limited area, like house arrest, and they cannot enjoy freedom of movement.

Did the skirmishes happen before?
The BGF and DKBA [Splinter Group] were always fighting each other in the Meh Th’waw vehicle road [area].

So it was the first time skirmishes happened in Meh T’Ree. Do you know why the fighting happened?
I do not know. The BGF and the Myanmar military are the same group so maybe they want to eradicate the DKBA [Splinter Group]. Meh Th’Waw area is controlled by DKBA [Splinter Group] Commander Bo Bee so the skirmishes happened between the DKBA [Splinter Group] and the BGF. In the past, my husband was also based there [Meh Th’Waw]. During the Meh Th’Waw fighting, he fled to District #5 [Hpapun] and then he returned to the Meh Kyee Loo hill.

So your husband is a DKBA [Splinter Group] soldier?
Yes.

Do you know any of the BGF commanders that attacked the DKBA [Splinter Group]?
They are the Battalion #1014 Commander Bo Maung Chit and the Company Commander Bo Tin Win.

How about the DKBA [Splinter Group] commander?
They do not have a Battalion number. They have only the Buddhist flag and the DKBA [Splinter Group] seal.

Do they have any general?
Yes, they have one. It is Pu Choo, and the Meh Th’Waw fighting was led by [Deputy Commander-in-Chief] Bo Bee.

Where did Pu Choo live when the incident happened?
He was in Meh Kyee area, but he is from Kee Nee [village].

Before the attack, did they [BGF] inform the villagers?
No, they did not. Whenever they said they would attack, we fled, but they did not attack. We always had to flee. Sometimes, we had to flee for around ten days at a time and then we returned. It was like they were threatening us, so we were so afraid and always in fear. However, when they really attacked, they did not inform us. Consequently, our children had to run back home and some children who live near the mountainside had to flee with the other nearby families because they [BGF] were stationed on the students’ way home.

Was there any damage from the fighting? For example, houses destroyed, people killed or others.
There were no DKBA [Splinter Group] soldiers killed, but one of them got injured. I got a message [from the DKBA Splinter Group internal communication] that four Tatmadaw and BGF soldiers were killed or injured. As we are villagers, when we heard the guns we ran.

Did any villagers get injured?
No, because we ran to the other side of the mountain. There were only soldiers and the Senior Monk Sadawara[7] in the village.

Where did the fighting happen?
It happened beside the village next to Mi Saing Taung [Meh Kyee Loo] hill. It was close to the village because the DKBA [Splinter Group] was based on the hill and we live close to the hill. The BGF approached them so we were [caught] between them.

[…]

Were there any farms damaged by the [mortar] fire?
Yes, many farms were damaged by the [mortar] fire.

How about villagers’ livestock?
Villagers did not feel secure to look after their animals when they fled to other places, but I do not know whether they already returned to their animals yet or not.

Did they get their animals back?
When I left the village, they had not gotten [their animals back] yet. Actually [the DKBA Splinter Group handed over their arms to the BGF and Tatmadaw] so they [villagers] should get their belongings back. However, they [BGF and Tatmadaw] sold the wood of the [DKBA Splinter Group families’] houses for money and burned down all of the low quality houses and materials.

Who did that?
BGF Battalion #1014 Commander Bo Maung Chit and the Company Commander Bo Tin Win [and their soldiers].

[…]

Does the fighting still happen?
It ended because all of the 45 DKBA [Splinter Group] soldiers [handed over their arms] to the BGF.

How many BGF soldiers?
They came with around seven trucks with heavy weapons to attack the DKBA [Splinter Group]. More came after the incident. They surrounded the DKBA [Splinter Group] with a large number of soldiers and weapons because they aimed to clear out all of the DKBA [Splinter Group] in one day if the DKBA [Splinter Group] would not reunite with them [surrender]. The Senior Monk was cooperating with [BGF General] Bo Mong Tho who is based in Noe Poe village, Myawaddy area. During the fighting, Bo Mong [Tho] picked up the Senior Monk and then the fighting stopped.

Did the incident also damage your farm?
Yes.

Why did you come here [S---village]?
My husband stays here and works on a farm for Dtee Kyaw N--- [position censored for security reasons]. When we faced the difficulties there, he asked us to come here.

How many days or hours did [it take to reach S--- village]?
It took one day by motorbike, boat and car; we left at 8:00 am and arrived here at 4:00 pm. We went to Aung Daung by motorbike, by boat across the Kho Lo Kloe River between Aung Daung and Kaw Taw Poo town and then by car to here.

Could you bring your belongings with you?
No, I could not. I fled with only one set of my clothes on me. During the incident, I was in my older daughter’s village because my grandchildren were sick and my younger daughter was alone in my village so she had to run with another family. Several days later, she could return to me and then we came here.

So you had to leave all of your belongings?
Yes. They [BGF and Tatmadaw] burnt all of them [belongings]. My younger brother and my father are in the village. They have to stay [in detention] in Ma Aye Naoing’s [a BGF commander’s] big house and they cannot go anywhere.

So you came here with your five children, right?
Yes, because my oldest daughter has family there and my older son studies in M--- village [so they could not come with me]. Where I was there, I lived in a DKBA [Splinter Group]-controlled area [Z--- village].

Do you think the situation there has improved yet?
I do not know. Since there is no more DKBA [Splinter Group] there, the fighting may not happen anymore. However, [DKBA Splinter Group Deputy Commander-in-Chief] Bo Bee said he will attack [the BGF/Tatmadaw] again in order to reclaim his army camp. This area is DKBA [Splinter Group]’s land with the [official] recognition of the Monk Sadawara.

Did you face any problem on your way to here?
No, we came here without any problems or disturbance from the checkpoints [armed actors or police]. However, in M--- village, the BGF did not allow us to go and worship at the pagoda. It is like they destroyed their own religion.

Were all of the 27 households in your village displaced?
Yes, all of them were. Some of them fled to Kaw Taw Poo, Aong Daung and also Htee Chay Hkee villages, but they could not bring all of their clothes [belongings] with them and their houses were burnt down. The Senior Monk [also] has over 100 novices and members in the monastery, so they also had to flee separately to other places.

Did you experience any other problems?
The BGF did not allow us to return to our village. Once when I tried to return to my village and get my paddy from my house, they did not allow me to go. They told me: “You should not get your paddy [from your house], you must look for it [rice] in other places because the [security] situation is not good”. They said they would provide rice for us when the situation became stable. Nevertheless, they destroyed and burnt down all of our houses. [Due to the security risk,] my father told me not to return and get the paddy. So we had to look for food in other places.

Do you have any health problems?
Almost all of us are infected by the chikungunya fever.

Do you receive healthcare services?
We received medicine from the clinic. Dtee Kyaw N--- also looks after us, buys clothes for my youngest child who is a student, and my older children received second-hand clothes from his wife.

Have you received any support from any organisation?
No, I have not.

Who looks after you at the moment?
Dtee Kyaw N---.

Can your children go to school?
Three of them go to school, but [among them] the youngest child stopped going to school when she got chikungunya.

What are your basic needs at the moment?
It is okay when we have enough food. Now, Dtee [Kyaw N---] provides enough food for us. Sometimes, he gave some money for my children to buy snacks when they were going to school.

How about the other villagers who fled to other places?
I do not know about them because it is too expensive to call them from a Thai phone. Sometimes, my younger brother who is a DKBA [Splinter Group] soldier talks with my children on Facebook. He said there is still a conflict so they still face restrictions on freedom of movement. If they could travel to other places, he said he would not be a soldier anymore and he would come here to work as a daily labourer.

What do you think the biggest concern for the villagers in your village is?
The villagers do not feel secure to travel due to the landmine contamination.

How far is the DKBA [Splinter Group] camp from the village?
It is just like from here to the centre of the village [around 800 metres]. Whenever they [BGF] said they would attack, the DKBA [Splinter Group] planted more landmines, so the land is contaminated with a lot of landmines. During the BGF attack, they used metal detectors for demining. However, they could not find all of the landmines due to the volume used, so some of their soldiers got injured. There are still a lot of landmines now.

Did community leaders provide any support to the IDPs?
No, they did not.

Did villagers flee by themselves or were they ordered to flee?
It was because their houses were burnt down and they did not have food in Z--- village anymore, so they had to flee to their relatives for help. Villagers who fled to Kaw Taw Poo, they could access food from the IDP camp.

Do you have a connection with them?
I have many of their contact numbers, but it is too expensive to phone them. As you know, it is now easy to earn income and we just receive some money when my children work on a corn plantation as daily labourers; they earn only 150 baht (US $ 4,97)[8] per day so we cannot properly cover our family needs.

Do you feel secure to return?
I do not feel secure to return because the BGF and Tatmadaw are based in our village and do not allow us to travel freely. So I will stay here.  

Do you know anyone injured by landmines?
Mostly cows and buffaloes stepped on landmines before the fighting. Most of the cows and buffaloes are from L--- village. I do not know any villagers who stepped on landmines. I just know that the BGF soldiers stepped on landmines when they attacked [the DKBA Splinter Group]. During the summer, one L--- villager stepped on a landmine while hunting [a wild animal].

Whose landmine was that?
It was a DKBA [Splinter Group] landmine. They planted landmines since the Meh Th’Waw fighting happened and whenever the BGF threatened to attack them, they planted more landmines and we had to flee. It took around three years [before the real attack]. This time they [BGF and Tatmadaw] really attacked and then set up their [army] base, so we could not return.

Did anyone step on landmines after the attack?
No, because nobody feels safe to go [to the incident place].

What do you need for your family livelihoods in the future?
I think I will stay with Dtee Kyaw N--- and work on the corn plantation with him like this.

Do you know about the Nationwide Ceasefire Agreement (NCA)?
Actually they [BGF and Tatmadaw] signed the NCA, so they should allow us to return to our land. Moreover, they destroyed our houses, sold the wood from our houses and burnt down our houses. Therefore, signing the NCA was meaningless, wasn’t it?

So do you think the NCA is not really good?
I don’t know. We already signed [the interviewee refers to the fact that the KNU has signed the NCA, which should have brought peace to Southeast Myanmar in her opinion] but we could not return so I don’t know. My father and my brother are also soldiers. They [DKBA Splinter Group] surrendered in Hkaw Taw Poo, but they still have to stay there without freedom of movement.

What about your husband? Does he work with the Democratic Karen Benevolent Group?[9]
I don’t know. He is just working for Dtee Kyaw N---  [plantation] because he said he does not want to work for any armed groups. So now he is working on Dtee Kyaw N---’s durian plantation.

[…]

What suggestion would you like to give to the armed groups such as DKBA [both the DKBA Splinter Group and the Democratic Karen Benevolent Group], BGF, KNU and Tatmadaw?
I do not want to give suggestions to BGF and Tatmadaw because I have been displaced because of the Tatmadaw since I was a child. When I was in Me Th’Waw and Meh Kyee areas, I was displaced because of the BGF and Tatmadaw.

How about the DKBA [both the DKBA Splinter Group and the Democratic Karen Benevolent Group] and KNU?
I love both of them because we can rely [on them] and stay under their protection because they are Karen. The BGF are also Karen, but as our forefathers said: “When a monitor lizard enters into [stays in] the water, it is more dangerous than a crocodile.” So they [Karen BGF] are more wicked than the Tatmadaw.

[…]